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So I had this brilliant idea. Talk about it on the blog...
More reliable rumours
[*]Army construction is moving back to percentages.
[*]Strength in Depth/ Stepping up (models may fight in 2 ranks)
[*]Crush attack for larger creatures
[*]40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks.
[*]Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook
[*]All non-english rulebooks are moving to inches.
[*]Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The pool is decided by 2D6. Magic users add their magic level to the score rolled. All Wizards have a chance to generate more power dice.
[*]All missile units fire in two ranks (not just High Elves). Missile units will not gain a rank when shooting from hills.
[*]Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.
[*]Combats are strictly decided in initiative order.
Warhammer 8th Ed Rulebook to be released July 10th
500+ pages (probably 528)
Possibly going to get the pdf erratas for all armies on July 6th
There will be a "General's" Edition as well as a "Gunner's" Edition: Both are the basic rulebook along with multiple different gimmicks, as golden templates, dice, angulometer, combat-resolution-calculator, markers and more. "General's Edition" is supported with a white linnen bag with two silver coins attached to it, so if you fall in battle, they may put them on your eyes...
Other rumours (and description of above)
These are all listed in no particular order.
ARMY SELECTION
[*]Army construction is moving back to percentages.
This is looking more like 25% max characters, 25% min core, 25% max special and 25% max rare (anonymous source, but trustworthy ) The 25% characters includes mounts.
Edit. Just as I thought this part was looking certain, there have been some rumours/ sources saying 25% max characters, 25% min core, 50% max special and 15% max rare. I will edit one out as it become clear.
[*]Categories for core/special/rare are remaining.
[*]There *may* be something to prevent spamming...
[*]There will be a system wide errata to clear up issues for each army.
MAGIC
NOTE: The magic rumours nobody seems to agree on, so rather than try and find what exactly the truth is I will just put here most of the theories
Edit: I've sorted out the ones that seem more likely, based on the info from an anonymous (trustworthy) source:
[*]Power dice aren’t generated by the number of spellcasters. The pool is decided by 2D6. Magic users add their magic level to the score rolled. All Wizards have a chance to generate more power dice. - Avian
(edit: This could be 1 PD for lvl 1/2 and 2 PD for lvl 3/4).
Example: 2D6 roll gives you 3 and 6. You have 1 level 2 and 1 level 4. Power dice =9+1+2 = 12
[*]Giving irresistible force a downside
[*]Double 6 = a miscast
[*]Making miscasts much more devastating.
[*]Something rumoured is carrying over power dice, but holding too many could lead to a ‘magic backlash’. Wizard will recieve wounds or hits if he didn't use the excess power-dice (than originally allocated) at end of the turn.
[*]All the book Lores will have more supportive spells than they have now, and will all be getting a major overhaul. Each lore to get a mega spell.
[*]Spells can be chosen, not rolled for.
And the other rumours:
[*]There's no limit to the number of dice used to cast a spell, by any level of caster.
[*]If a wizard fails to cast (not counting dispels) twice in a row he miscasts
[*]Dispel scroll only adding dispel dice (+2 dice to the dispel dice pool once per game). (edit - possibly speculation)
[*]Dispel attempts to be made by specific wizards (presumable your casting level is beneficial for dispelling spells)
[*]A higher chance of miscast with multiple casters.
[*]If a wizard fail to cast a spell he can't cast other spells in the same phase.
COMBAT
NOTE: Trying to nail down what the facts are here is very hard. Some of this is only my understanding of what has been discussed.
Fighting in 2 ranks
[*]Units fight in 2 ranks all the time, with their full quota of attacks, and with any special rules they have.
[*]Spears may be +1 rank as normal.
[*]Spearelves may fight with an additional rank as normal (citzen levy).
[*]Cavalry still only fight in 1 rank.
[*]This is the same regardless of which side they are attacked on.
Stepping up. – Harry/ Avian / other people
[*]Casualties are strictly removed from the back.
Horde - Still no closer to nailing this one down
Fight in 3 ranks if 10+ wide (4 with spears). - Avian.
OR
Some benefit to fighting in large units, may automatically become stubborn beyond a certain unit size. – Harry - (edit) seemingly confirmed from another source).
Another edit: Seems this Horde rule may work like this:
If the unit is 10+ wide and 5 ranks deep (50+ models) the front 2 ranks may all fight, regardless of whether they are in base contact.
[*]Now it would explain how people have got up to 5 ranks in combat (2 front, Spears = 3, Citizen levy = 4, Horde = 5). At this stage just another rumour, but a little closer perhaps to the truth.
Rank bonuses
[*]Unchanged apparently.
One Save to ruin them all!
[*]Models will only ever get one save (be it ward, mundane or magical armour). No word yet on whether regeneration is included. From Alessio himself!
40mm models
[*]40mm models moving to 3 model-wide ranks. Ogre sized models are officially being put into their own size category (finally).
Crush them!
[*]Additional stomp/crush attacks for big infantry (ogres, trolls, etc) to represent them trampling lesser races underfoot. Bigger bonus for large creatures like giants. These are not impact hits. (edit: these could be overrun hits)
Armour Save Modifiers
[*]Fewer armour save modifiers
Striking in Initiative order
[*]Combat will always strictly be resolved in initiative order (confirmed). Chargers do not get a bonus apparently
Chariots
[*]S7 autokill is gone. (edit: possibly not speculation)
MOVEMENT
Standard Movement
[*]Measure the distance for the furthest moving model, and perform whatever manoeuvres you wish within that lax limitation (i.e. they all move like fast cav currently do, minus the reform). Command models will have some role to play in giving free manoeuvre as you move (Musician bonus similar to Ancient Battles?).
Charging.
[*]An added 'bonus' of getting an 'extra' +D6 or +D3 inches of movement to your Movement range (presumably the D6 or D3 decided by the category of warrior; infantry/cavalry/ogre sized).
Edit; rumoured to be:
Movement equal to or less than 6 (and not flying):
-> Basic M value + D6
Movement equal to or more than 7 (and not flying):
-> Basic M value + 2D6
Heavy cavalry
[*]- Heavy cavalry, defined as any cavalry with a 2+ or better save, cannot march. They can double their move when charging as normal, but they are not allowed to make a March move.
- "Medium and Fast cavalry remain the same".
SHOOTING
Armour Save Modifiers
[*]As it happens to be the same rumour; fewer armour save modifiers.
Fire in 2 ranks as standard.
[*]Missile units fire in two ranks (not just High Elves). - Harry & someone else. Missile units will not gain a rank when shooting from hills.
PSYCHOLOGY and SPECIAL RULES
Fear and Terror
[*]This may be
Fear +1 to Combat resolution
Terror +2 to Combat resolution
[*]Autobreaking from fear or terror is gone.
[*]Leadership tests against fear is rumoured to be going
[*]Fear and Terror incorporate immune to panic (with possibly a change to crumbling for undead).
Killing Blow
[*]Killing blow only against models in a similar size category or lower (large creature>ogre sized> infantry/cavalry sized) (edit: apparently this is close, but not quite right)
Always Strike First
[*]Models with great weapons will always strike last, regardless of ASF. There is supposedly a change to the ASF rule to compensate HE a bit, not sure what yet.
OTHER RULEBOOK CONTENTS
[*]Multiple objective driven scenarios in the rulebook (no kill points). See GW grand tournament and doubles scenarios.
[*]15 or so missions in the new rulebook. 9 or 10 of the missions required Core units to capture objectives. Units must have banners to capture objectives. Several missions had multiple objectives
[*]Victory Conditions
Interestingly something I picked up from a post was that ‘victory conditions’ have been referred to in the last 3 books, not victory points.
[*]A section in the rulebook dealing with specific issues that may arise during battles
Terrain
[*]Difficult terrain may be merged with very difficult and encompass more things (presumably more than just affecting movement).
[*]D6+4 cumpulsory terrain.
[*]Terrain will not affect the movement phase so much but will affect fleeing units, like in the War of the Ring game.
[*]Bonuses and hazards for terrain (such as rolling the dice to see how many people don’t make it out of the wood...).
Hey good idea. Wish I'd thought of it. If I had thought of it here's what I'd have to say about all this:
• I agree that percentages are potentially a bad thing given the current Army Book construction. It is clearly AIMED at breaking the DoC Army book because it makes it patently impossible to take a Lord level character in a 2250 list. Period. It also has a massively negative impact on VC. Again, probably intentional. But as Tom mentioned, it also hurts lizards by essentially removing the Slaan as an option. Another army that it impacts in a HUGE way is High Elfs. What is the advantage of only requiring one core choice in a 2k list and getting double Special and Rare if you are limited to 25% and 15% respectively. The percentages extremely ill-conceived and I’m not a fan. And not just because my DE list is 40% characters and 16.7% rare. Oh here’s a funny side note..I could make it <15% rare by taking two hydras instead of the reaper bolt throwers.
• No limit to the number of dice used by a caster-Great…well there goes an army specific advantage that Dark Elves had. Why don’t we just give everyone dark magic too?
• Holding over magic dice? Well why pay for an Empire specific or VC specific magic item that does the same thing. Everybody gets it!
• Fight in two ranks. This isn’t bad in itself, but it creates some weirdness. High elf spearmen now fight in FOUR ranks?!? And if they’re 10 wide they fight in FIVE?!?? That seems..well…I don’t even know what to call it. But you know what’s worse? Saurus spearmen 10 wide fighting in three ranks with 61 attacks.
• One save. Don’t like it. It’s very 40k. That’s one of the things that makes fantasy different. But whatever. Generally ward saves don’t come into play unless no armor save is allowed so this isn’t game-breaking. So long as it doesn’t apply to regen, which (historically) wasn’t a save at all.
• Movement changes-I do not like. Very 40kesque. Very much an oversimplification of the system and an attempt to bring more people into the game. Not to mention, if everyone moves like fast cav, what is the point of fast cav?
• Great weapons always striking last. I don’t have to tell you how significantly this will break ALL High Elf special choices. They’re already getting nerfed hard enough by the multi-rank fighting. Expect HE to vanish on the tournament circuit along with DoC and VC.
• D6+4!!!! Compulsory terrain. Seriously? We’re back to fighting it out in fucking cramped ass battlefields. Apparently Old World Generals are all pretty brain-dead when it comes to choosing suitable battlefields to deploy their troops.
They post did say they are going to be posting pdg erratas right before the book comes out, perhaps they will do something to work around the "gimping" of certain armies?
One of the things that I really don't understand is it seems that you are letting people choose which spells they get, but then make the number of spell dice they get random? Seems counter-productive.
On the bright side, these are just rumors. Who the hell knows what will actually be in the book in July.
Oh I didn't say anything positive. I do like the choosing spells thing. It never made much sense to me that a battle mage would go to war with a random page torn from their spellbook.
But yeah, I hope that most of the rumors are wrong.
I had read several rumor threads on the new WHFB book. Two other rumors that I don't think I saw in Pidge's post:
Standard games are going to 3000pts per army. Which I don't think is bad and I guess that gives you more points to spend on your character choices, but when combined with D6+4 terrain: Where the hell are you going to put your models? Especially 3000pts of rats or gobbos or skinks... Are we going to have to have 4x8 boards just to play a regular game?
Another rumor I heard was that all close combat will be fought out in the turn in which it occurs. Meaning if you charge a unit or get charged, that combat is fought out in that turn until something is destroyed or breaks from combat. So, no more being stuck in combat for 3 or 4 turns. I'm not sure how I feel about that.
So, is GW trying to "dumb-down" WHFB to be more like 40k, to appeal to all those 10yoa kids out there? The more I see this happening, the less I like the game. I thought Warhammer was supposed to be a strategy game, not a "run across the field and destroy you opponent because your army is cheesier" game.
So, if the new Rulebook is gonna suck, why should we even buy it and play it? What's wrong with us sticking with the current rulebook? I know you guys are concerned with tournaments and such, but I could give a rats ass about that. I just want to have fun playing the game...
If even half these rumors boil down to being true, then yes this is a leap towards making WHFB more like 40k, which is unfortunate.
The majority of the folks who play fantasy do so because it's not 40k.. I really don't see this as a good move on GW's part..
We can play any set of rules yall want.. I mean if we want to stick with current rules then thats' fine.. OR we can adopt rules from each version and come up with our own glom of rules that we post here.. Between all of us we have many copies of all the rules.. and I'm pretty sure between Calvin and I we can kick out books going all the way back to the early 90's..
Even if the rules suck, I'll still buy the book and give it the benefit of the doubt.. I still will be trying to put together a DoC army "for funsies" even though the new rules appear to make them largely pointless.. Skaven will be even stronger if some of these pan out..
As one who enjoys the 10 year old mentality aspect of 40k, I think that its a bad idea to 40k-ify WHFB. While I totally think that WHFB is a bit too much for me (and my mentality), I think its important that there is a "thinking mans' game" in the GW line-up.
I listen to a lot of 40k and WHFB podcasts as I paint and it appears to me that WHFB is way more popular than 40k in just about every place other than the US. I think that the US has that 10 yo mentality, and I wondering if the shift (assuming the rumors are true) are due to how much of GW product is sold in the US, and whether or not GW is trying to increase the WHFB fan-base in the US by 40k-ifying the rules.
(btw, I am not being snarky with the comments about the 10 yo mentality. I think that is my mentality, and that is why I like 40k over WHFB. I am not taking shots at anyone)
If they are trying to encourage the 40k US customer base to play fantasy they might be hurting their current fantasy customer base both here and abroad..
That just doesn't seem to make sense to me..
I have a hard time believing that the battles will be fought until one side breaks/is destroyed during the same phase. This eliminates 90% of the tactical aspect of the game referring to combat. Gone would be the pin, tar pit, anchor-n-flank, etc. There would have to be a whole lotta rule changes to re-introduce those lost tactical issues. Hell, even in 40k the CC isn't fought until one side dies/breaks in the initial round. It is bloody and fast, but not a "must fight a single round till one guy wins."
As for some of the other rumors, I am still of the opinion I will need to see the actual rule book and see what errata they release for ALL army books that will allow them to be utilized with the new rule set.
I think the "stepping up/two ranks rule" is there to speed up combats and to change the existing practice of wiping the front rank and being safe. Still models with high initiative will strike first, so in order to grind down a deep ranked inf unit you will also need a third rank (for HE SMs) because there will be return hits.
It seems like this 8th edition is a coordinated effort to re-introduce basic infantry as the true backbone of all armies. Granted GW will benefit from increased sales of box sets of 10 warriors...especially with the possibility of horde infantry blocks of 10 wide by 5 deep.
Everything else looks like it is there to eliminate the HE lords on star dragons, DE lords on dragons, Chaos lords on dragons etc except for LARGE games where their impact wouldn't be so game-changing.
DoC with no greater deamon doesn't "feel" right then again it may be a balance to the army book since everything else is so under-costed.
We will see when the 8th ed rule book comes out. I am cautiously optimistic.
~John